Dr Sasha Courville | Chief Impact Officer at Bank Australia
What in your background do you think set you on this path?
I grew up in the prairies of Saskatchewan in Canada, where there were very strong social networks, community networks and a hugely important cooperative movement. My parents and grandparents were very involved in their communities and my grandfather especially was very active in the cooperative movement.
I grew up just thinking that it was normal and expected that you’d contribute to your community. It was also ingrained in me that it is your responsibility to leave the world a better place than when you started.
People came together to support each other, to provide access to capital where they couldn't get access otherwise, which is really at the heart of Bank Australia's history.
How did this background drive what you wanted to do?
In high school, I couldn't decide what I wanted to do. I loved English, biology, chemistry, math, history, geography – everything basically! – and I ended up doing an environmental studies degree because it was interdisciplinary and I was able to learn about the connections between disciplines.
When I started the course in 1991, it was the first ever undergraduate program in Canada on environmental studies. Being exposed at that age to environmental crises, the interconnections with first nations justice, and a whole range of other things taught me that the world is not broken up into disciplines – you have to see the connections between things. That was hugely influential.
Watch Sasha Courville speak at Purpose Conference 2022
You started in sustainability, moved into corporate social responsibility and now you’re a chief impact officer. How have you seen the evolution of this space?
Very early on I was involved in standard certification systems, which were kind of early versions of shared value. They were trying to drive commercial outcomes and solve a societal problem at the same time by connecting producers on one side of the planet to consumers on the other side of the planet in a way that is fair and accessible.
By doing that, we were trying to push the boundaries and change the way the broader system works.
In an overall sense, though, I think that sustainability issues have moved from the periphery where a small group of incredibly passionate, bright people are chipping away at the edges, trying to be heard to the core of an organisation.
Instead of building a business case to drive some kind of sustainability change, we've now flipped into a space where sustainability and especially climate change is understood as a core risk and a core opportunity. We're now at the point where we’re asking how it becomes embedded.
So how does impact or purpose become business as usual?
Everybody's trying to sort that out right now and nobody has the perfect answers. But, in essence, we’ve moved from having to push the idea of purpose to understanding that we’re now pulling.
As we move from the periphery to the centre, we’re grappling with a skills shortage, especially skills in the impact and sustainability space, with new governance structures, interfacing tech and finance roles, with corporate affairs and risk. In Bank Australia, it's fantastic that I'm not pushing but it’s all about bringing the pieces together.
What does a day-to-day or a week-to-week look like for you?
As the Chief Impact Officer I'm on the executive team. It means that a lot of my time is spent with the executive team in various committee meetings, from credit committee meeting to a product and pricing committee meeting or a risk committee meeting. We all have different responsibilities and expertise, but we come together and make collective decisions around how to run the bank.
Everybody brings a different lens, different insights, and we all respect each other's positions and views. There might be robust discussions on things, but at the end of the day, we get to a really good outcome that everyone’s comfortable with because of the breadth and depth of perspectives and contributions.
The executive team members also sit in on all board meetings so there is a very high level of visibility, transparency and trust between the executive team and the board. It means that there's a very strong alignment of purpose, values and strategy.
“What is unique about Bank Australia is its purpose and ability to deliver impact, to drive change through the work.”
I also spend a good chunk of my time with my team, whether it's marketing or corporate affairs or strategy or impact management, and connecting those teams.
Because we're a small organisation, we can't do everything on our own, and we shouldn't be doing everything on our own. It means that initiating and nurturing external partnerships are a big part of my work as well.
How do you measure impact so you’re capturing the correct data?
Measurement is critical. We do have a number of key frameworks but the Net Zero by 2035 is a really critical target for us. At the moment, we are working to publish our baseline financed emissions, which we’ll publish later this year, that will provide a starting point as well as interim targets.
One problem we need to overcome is the aggregated data sets that the financial services industry generally uses. We need to do better by getting individual, customer-level data so we can track real progress. We have a working group on that at the moment and we'll have a plan for implementation next year.
The whole financial services industry, actually every industry, is going to be under increased scrutiny over time as sustainability issues come closer to the centre. There's a likelihood that greenwashing will become a challenge at a societal level, so the more robust, credible, harmonised criteria we can develop with others in the sector, the better off everybody will be.
The other key target that we measure is having 20% of our total assets being in impact finance by 2025. We're tracking at about 15% but there’s a whole range of data and measurement that sits underneath that.
In terms of becoming Net Zero by 2035, what is underpinning your approach to meeting that target?
We know that the majority of our emissions are in our mortgage book, so supporting customers who are reducing their emissions is a key priority for us. We’re asking ourselves how we innovate and improve on our products to help make this happen and who we can partner with to make it easy for people to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions at a homeowner level. We also can’t forget about people who rent and those in low-income households. Building partnerships in that broad home ecosystem is critical.
Your MD said that you “don’t have all the answers on how to get to Net Zero by 2035”. How do you balance ambition and risk, especially for a financial institution?
It’s a good question. Ultimately it’s our commitment to responsible banking and our customers has led us to our Net Zero 2035 commitment. We know there’s a lot of work to do to deliver across areas like data capture, product development and partnerships for us to reach our target, but we’re working hard to plot a path to 2035 that will be transparent and adjusted as new information becomes available.
From a customer viewpoint, they have led us to this position because as a customer owned bank, we frequently survey them on their views about areas of focus for the bank. Our customers tell us taking action on climate change is a top priority, and for many of them it’s a key reason why they choose to bank with us. It’s pretty amazing that 86% of customers in our last engagement survey said that they expected Bank Australia to take greater action to address climate change.
We believe that a greater risk for us is to not take any action at all with the expectations our customers have of us!
How much of a role will banks and other financial institutions play in decarbonising the economy and combating climate change?
All financial institutions have a huge part to play in decarbonisation. Banks and other financial institutions can incentivise customers to decarbonise by doing right thing for the planet. At Bank Australia we offer a discount for our Clean Energy Home Loan if you're looking to do things like add solar panels, window glazing and insulation to your home, or even buy or build a planet-friendly, energy efficient home.
From a business perspective, there is great scope and opportunity to limit finance to organisations that gain profit from harming the planet and continue investing and incentivising businesses that are part of the climate change solution.
Do you sense that the entire financial sector is genuine about achieving this, especially with new investments in fossil fuels coming online?
We know the sector is complex and many businesses have competing priorities over different time horizons when it comes to working for their customers and shareholders. We also know that the market is shifting and the economics of decarbonisation is becoming a strong driver for change across business.
Here at Bank Australia, we believe we can show that by being clear in our own priorities, we can show all businesses, not just the finance sector, that there are both economic and impact benefits to taking these important steps for people and the planet.
Can you talk about the decision to only support EV car loans from 2025 – what impact do you see this having and what needs to change more broadly to drive the uptake of EVs?
This is a big step for us and a really important one as part of our 2035 Net Zero commitment. The decision to not provide car loans for new fossil fuel vehicles is a big step, but we want to send a signal to the Australian market about the rapid acceleration in the transition from internal combustion to electric vehicles we expect to see in the next few years.
We know not everyone will have access to a new EV by 2025 and we want to make sure customers who need a car can still buy one. Our announcement means we’ll still provide loans for second-hand hybrid and combustion engine vehicles from 2025, because this still avoids bringing a new fossil fuel powered car into the market!
We’ve chosen 2025 because the change to electric vehicles needs to happen quickly, and it can with the right supporting policies in place, bring a greater range of more affordable electric vehicles to Australia. For comparison New Zealand was able to move from around 3% of new car sales being EV to almost 20% in just over a year – if they can do this, so can we!
If you are looking back in 20 years time, what would success look like for you?
So 20 years time is 2042, which would mean we’re past 2035 and have been net zero for seven years. At that point, I hope we're going into negative emissions territory and there’s a whole range of new industries and new sectors in the net zero space.
I also think biodiversity is going to be a really critical next issue. So by 2042, I’d hope that we would have made significant progress in really understanding and measuring biodiversity, and supporting markets that appropriately value biodiversity and ecosystem services especially from a systems perspective.
“And while everybody is talking about net zero 2050, my hope is that by 2042, everybody’s at net zero because we have recognised that the climate crisis requires a more rapid acceleration of action. ”
I would have hoped that Bank Australia's contribution is as a first mover in demonstrating that the residential property sector can, and has by 2042, largely decarbonised. I’d also love to see that those solutions have been copied and replicated and everybody is net zero by 2042.
