How Purpose set Joel Hanna and Xero on an industry-leading trajectory

We first met Joel Hanna when we asked him to speak at Purpose 2018. His time at the conference was “pivotal” in what happened next. A sucker for a feel-good story, we sat down with Joel, a self-professed optimist who, while he hasn’t achieved his childhood goal of being a firetruck, has made a huge impact on the world around him.

Joel was instrumental in building sustainability capability for Xero’s 3 million customers, setting up a legacy and leadership in the industry as a whole.

Purpose: You describe yourself as a longtime practitioner of business for good. What are the earliest iterations of this in your life or career?

JH: My dad tells this story of me being about six or seven and having to go to his work because I was sick. I was bored so I started a business in dad’s office offering to clean and tidy people's desks so they didn't have to worry, and instead focus on things that were more meaningful. I charged two bucks and I don't think I got any customers, but that was my way of trying to contribute to the environment I was in. 

Many years later I learned how to roast coffee, bought a roaster, and started a micro roastery. We donated 10% of our profits to a children's education and wellbeing charity in Papua New Guinea. It was on a micro scale, but it was my first real dabbling in social enterprise. We didn't have a name for it back then. If I'm really honest, initially it was more about differentiation than it was about trying to be hugely impactful.

A few years later, I started a consulting business that mostly worked with nonprofits, so the whole goal was to get nonprofits to transition from on-premise, desktop, old school ways of doing business to one geared towards online and technology. We did some pro bono work, but I didn't see it as like a for-purpose social enterprise, it’s just what the business did.

You can use business to work for people that need support, you can use it to make money or you can do both of those things. Why wouldn’t you do both?

Purpose: Where did that come from? Are you just an inherently good person?

JH: I don’t know that I'm an inherently good person, but I am very curious. 

Growing up, my mum was a single parent and I remember her having an extended period where she didn't work because she was studying. In other words, we were really poor. In my local neighbourhood, I remember this homeless man with a dog. We’d see him around the place. I remember we were on our way home from getting groceries or something, and it’s important to mention, we were only just scraping by ourselves. Mum saw him, pulled over and said to me “just wait in the car for a second.” She popped across the street and gave this guy her last hundred bucks.

I was a bit annoyed and said, “what are you doing?”. Mum very gently explained that we were going to a home, we had food in the house, we had a car, we'll be fine. But this man and his dog had nowhere to sleep, so that money was more valuable to him than it was to us that day. I was 9 or 10 years old and that memory stuck with me. If you choose to, you can help people. It is possible to give to the point where it’s actually not logical, or even “fair”, but small acts like that can have a significant impact in someone's world.

Mum’s always really loved people, just for the sake of loving them. At the same time we were huge beneficiaries of other people's generosity, including state welfare. For example, I was gifted a really cheap acoustic guitar when I was a kid, which I played basically every day for about 10 years (till my sister-in-law’s mate, ran it over accidentally… I’m still bitter!). That guitar allowed me to develop a love of music that’s lasted my whole life, and is now something I’m passing on to my kids. There’s so many little moments of generosity or selflessness that have really shaped how I view what's possible.

Moving into professional life my thinking is that if you’ve got a day job, you've got capacity. If you’re able to choose a day job that makes the world better, why wouldn’t you? I keep reminding myself I don't need to be all preachy about it, but I feel like I have the opportunity to do some good

Purpose: Tell me about you and Purpose Conference.

JH: I was first introduced to Purpose through a business I started, around 7 years ago, called Big Little Brush.

We were in the very early stages and Sally Hill had reached out to me to say, “We've got this panel about responsible entrepreneurship and how it relates to technology. Would you like to come and sit on the panel?”. This was for the 2018 conference.

And I was like, oh my God, I'm just this poor kid, from the suburbs. I was super stoked to be asked to speak at Purpose. I was really nervous.

I remember meeting Paul Hawkin - he was about to speak and I sat down next to him accidentally - and I could not believe it.

Just before the panel, I was backstage with the other panelists getting mic’d up. One of the other panelists did the polite thing and introduced herself. And it was Anne [Ascharsobi]. At that point Anne was at, or may have just finished at, Google Ventures.

Google Ventures was one of the companies on my radar as a technology business with such a great calibre of support, investment, leadership, mentorship and acceleration.

I was aware of what Anne was doing at Google Ventures, but I hadn't met her until that moment backstage. I thought “this is a really amazing person,” and she was so lovely, encouraging and knowledgeable. 

At the time Big Little Brush was something I was doing outside of my day job, which at that point was in education strategy for Xero. Xero was on this campaign to build effectively an ESG practice, really a sustainability practice inside the business because Xero is publicly listed but had never considered the opportunity or responsibility it had as a business, in a structured way, to care for people and the planet. 

But after Purpose it got some momentum. 

We got to this point at Xero where we were ready to formalise that practice. Someone asked me if I knew anyone who's done this before. I was like, “Yes, actually. I met this person at Purpose Conference, she’s phenomenal, she’d be amazing, and the door is open”

So we gave Anne a call, introduced her to our Head of Comms then our Chief Customer Officer who asked how quickly we could appoint this person. She joined as a contractor, then returned after maternity leave as a full-time employee to build the practice.

I wasn’t a part of that team at first, but I was doing as much as I could to build the momentum with my discretionary time and energy outside my core day job. At that point it was just Anne and another person, Kelly. We were so proud as a team and as a business. 

The sustainability team continued to grow and increase in complexity. There was an opportunity to do a six months contract within Anne’s team, and it turned into a full-time job. One of the main things I worked on was helping to build sustainability capability for Xero’s 3 million customers. It was a real moment for us and I think it set up a pretty interesting legacy and leadership in the accounting industry too.

Anne and I joked about this a lot. If one of us had said no to the panel, would Xero have a formal sustainability practice and would it be world-leading?

Maybe? Maybe not?

Or what if I was in a bad mood or feeling too nervous and didn't say hello and didn't make that connection. It’s those little moments. 

The space Purpose Conference creates for conversation is so important. And the more we can get people to connect and talk and build collective energy, that’s what's going to give us that optimistic future and the best case scenario when it comes to planetary health.

I used to think why would we bother having more conferences? Why would we talk so much? My people are the ones taking action. Aren’t platforms like this just an echo chamber? But Purpose has really shifted my thinking, and lived experience, of this.

Let’s value conversations and create space for discussions with others. I’ve realised conferences are really, really critical because you can’t overstate what they are putting in motion and what’s being birthed into the world. Purpose Conference has been really critical for me.

Just recently Xero has gone through big workforce reductions and I was made redundant, but because of my experience at Xero I landed a job with an amazing team and an amazing opportunity. What I’m doing is only possible because of the transition I made due to Purpose Conference. There's other things that led to it, but Purpose was a pivotal moment. 

Joel Hanna, second from left, an attendee at Purpose Conference 2022

Purpose: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?

JH: Hugely optimistic. Maybe to a fault, but I just the best days are ahead of us as a collective and as a culture.

I think the science on climate in particular is really confronting. Maybe it's naive, but I do believe we have a moment now where if policy, business and individuals all line up behind the same thing then it is possible to change where we’re heading. 

We're on track to exceed 1.5°C [above pre-industrial temperatures]. A whole bunch of bad stuff happens at 1.5°C, but far out, a whole bunch of worse stuff happens at four degrees. And unabated that's what we're on track for by 2050. If we line up behind it now, then maybe we can limit it to two degrees, if we're lucky.

We need more of the The Mike Cannon Brookses of the world who recognise that this stuff is not just good for brand, but it's good for business. 

Getting really sharp on measuring, understanding and reducing your carbon footprint over time is a good business decision as much as it is a good climate, planet or human decision.

That gives me hope. 

Purpose: Where do you think the future of jobs is heading? 

JH: Everyone I know is sick of me saying “Every job is a climate job”.

Everything we do right now needs to be pointed at this fundamentally wicked problem. I think the future is that sustainability professionals won't exist because it will be so deeply embedded in everything we do in every business. It’s exciting. And it’s certainly the trend.

Sustainability teams are getting smaller. Crews in risk and procurement are all starting to think about climate impact. Teams are getting carbon budgets as well as financial budgets. That's a really good outcome. 

Purpose: Tell me about your new role.

JH: I’m working with Unravel Carbon (a tool for enterprises to measure and decarbonise their emissions profiles). We work with customers across every sector, and leverage AI to free up sustainability teams, to focus on the important work of decarbonisation. 

Purpose: Fill in the gap, [….] will save the world? 

JH: Pragmatic Optimism will save the world. 

That and unity, togetherness, more hangs, and having more connection with people who aren’t like ourselves. 

Purpose: What did you want to be when you were a kid?

JH: I wanted to be a firetruck, not a firefighter, a fire truck. I saw a firetruck when I was about five years old, in primary school, and thought they were cool

I’ve also, at different times, wanted to be a writer, an ornithologist, a musician, a producer, and a chef. Which is funny because I do all of those things as hobbies, and have never made a dime, in fact I’m sure I’ve lost money on all of them!  One day I’ll grow up and work out what I really want to do, and when I do, I’ll let you know!